Kris Safarova

Welcome to the Strategy Skills podcast. I’m your host, Kris Safarova, and our podcast sponsor today is StrategyTraining.com. If you want to strengthen your strategy skills, you can get the Overall Approach Used in Well-Managed Strategy Studies. It’s a free download, and you can get it at firmsconsulting.com/overallapproach. You can also get McKinsey and BCG-winning resume, which is a resume that got offers from both of those firms. And you can get it at firmsconsulting.com/resumePDF. And the last gift for today is a copy of a book called Nine Leaders in Action, which won the number one bestseller in multiple categories on Amazon. And you can get it at firmsconsulting.com/gift. And today we have with us a very special guest, Laura Rice, who is a globally recognized marketing strategist and best selling author, and I’m really looking forward to diving in. Welcome, Laura.

Laura Ries

Well, thanks so much. It’s exciting to be here. Can’t wait to get into the discussion.

Kris Safarova

I would like to start our conversation today with overview of your journey. Could you give us an overview of how you got where you are right now?

Laura Ries

Yeah, well, just so happens, my father is Al Ries, and he pioneered this idea called positioning. And he wrote a very famous book called The positioning, or positioning the battle for your mind, which really revolutionized how we think about marketing and branding. And so getting into the business started with my dad. And I always was fascinated by what he did as a only child from his second marriage. You know, we talked a lot about business at the dinner table, so I got to learn. And he loved to tell stories about what was going on with his clients. He loved to tell stories about, you know, what he would advise companies to do. So anytime we watched television show and the commercials came on, it was a running commentary. And so I got an early education on my branding and marketing, 101, and, you know, my journey. Then went to college. I worked for one year at an advertising agency in New York, and then I was like, What am I doing? I want to learn from the best. And so I, you know, went to work with my dad, and I like to say I was the ultimate apprentice. We spent nearly three decades together and just a wonderful experience. We traveled the world, we wrote several books, worked with clients around the world. And he passed in 2022, at almost 96 and he was just an amazing person and amazing legacy. And was working until the very, very end. He just loved what he did. And, you know, he put that passion into me, but the positioning idea, I mean, he was, you know, not a nobody, but he was a small guy from a, you know, Midtown Midwest family. He wanted to move to New York City to build an advertise and go into advertising. He started a firm in the 60s, and to position the firm was and to become well known, they thought about, you know, what? How can we approach our client work and establish our agency for standing for something? And that’s where they came upon, this idea of positioning. My father first called it the rock. You know, what? You know, every ad should be centered on one indisputable truth that would be instantly understood and accepted by the consumer. And he and his partner, Jack trout, they, they, you know, worked on that and came up with calling it positioning, or owning a position in the mind. And really was the contrast at the time, was to go up against creativity, which was thought of as the ultimate way to build a brand, right? You just needed a somewhat, you know, good product or service, and you use the creativity of the advertising to drive it into the mind. But you see, communications doesn’t start with what you want to say. In fact, the flip side of what positioning taught us was that it first starts with the mind of the consumer, and what that mind is more you know, what open position or hold there is.

Kris Safarova

And how to structure that message so that it would be instantly understood and then believed?

Laura Ries

So, you know that set, you know, my dad’s career on a path, and, of course, me joining in and becoming into the family business, if you will, of positioning such an incredible way to grow up. Yeah, world stop MBA class every day from the time you you can even recognize people are moving around you when you’re a tiny baby. Yes, no, it was, you know, I did not get a official MBA, but I like to say I got the absolute best MBA from my father and the world, you know, real world experience out there. And, you know, it’s also, it’s so fun to, you know, we’ve worked with clients, but also doing the research for the book, you know, studying all the companies of what you know success looks like. We you know what mistakes look like, and how to best. You know, structure principles to help other people apply them and become successful too. Take us to those early days growing up with your dad. What were some key things you learned about positioning and how companies can be successful, can be more successful, yeah? Well, you know, it comes from, you know, the ultimate and most important principle is the idea of this focus, right? So standing for something starts with focusing in on one, one thing and not trying to be everything to everyone, and that’s, you know, a very important principle to think about and understand. And what’s interesting too is, you know, in my Father’s world, you know, he ran an advertising agency for 30 years, and you know that in the book and positioning was, you know, to bring in business and get notoriety. But what ultimately happened was that they were asked for consulting. So big companies like Burger King, they didn’t want to hire my dad’s little B to B agency for, you know, advertising, but they did want to talk to him about strategy. So by the mid 80s, their business was about 5050, right? The consulting was, you know, growing, but they also had the traditional B to B advertising business. And it just so happens, actually, he was giving a speech, and someone said, Hey, you’re not following your own advice on focus, right? You’re talking about telling us to do it. Why don’t you do it yourself? And he actually took that really to heart. And he’s like, You know what? You’re, right? We are, you know, dividing ourselves. How can we promote ourselves as an advertising agency, as well as consulting? And they conflicted with each other, right? You know, the ad agency didn’t want to, you know, the people going for the ad agency felt, you know, a bit slighted about the consulting side, and the consulting clients didn’t want to be pushed into using their advertising agency. So he actually, in that late 80s, shut down the agency, giving up 50% of his income, right 50% of the business and the sales. But because he was able to focus on consulting, that business grew. He became, and eventually I joined him just a few years later, you know, becoming extremely well known on the consulting side and focusing on what on what we do, listen, there’s a lot of companies that can, you know, pull off the advertising part of the business, but we think our focus and our expertise is more strongly aligned with the consulting and the advice on the positioning strategy. So, you know, it’s really, it’s always important to sort of apply those principles to yourself. It can be actually challenging, but it’s very effective when you do so, do you remember any stories from childhood that you feel comfortable sharing where you really learn something from your dad? Oh, geez. I mean, I mean, I learned something every day. I mean, but what was really interesting, and I think what, you know, kind of started this process was, you know, working together on projects. So, you know, as I got into high school and middle school, and you know, you’d have to have the the project, and you present in front of the class. And, you know, we really spent a lot of time on these. He loved to help me, and I love to learn on that, because what he taught me was, you know, the importance of the visuals that went along with what you’re trying to communicate. You know, most time the kid reads something in the front of the classroom, but for me and my dad, it was, you know, I had flip charts, I had slides, I had dioramas, and, you know, illustrating and visualizing those became incredibly important, and it taught me a lot in terms of, you know, remembering that, you know, the to get a good visual, you also have to think oversimplification, right? How can you and how can you visualize it? You know, what’s the best way to present whatever you’re trying to say in a more visual, visual oriented way. And so that was a tremendous learning opportunity. And, you know, seeing the way my dad gave speeches, I mean, back before there was computers and PowerPoint, he was creating, you know, all of these visual, actual, you know, 35 millimeter slides. And took a lot of time, and at that time, a lot of money, to create these but, you know, we traveled the world with, you know, multiple carousels and 1000s of slides along with the presentations that we were doing. So, you know, we were really ahead of the game and moving into a visual oriented world, which, you know, I think is, is ultimately very important right now.

Kris Safarova

Laura, and when your Dad decided I’m going to kill half of the business and just focus, what happens then? What were some of the challenging moments and how he was able to overcome it?

Laura Ries

Yeah, sure. Well, you know, he was very thoughtful. And as you know, his agency was like his family. He had many people that had been with him for a very long time, were very loyal, were terrific. And he actually was very mindful of that. And so he took it, was it, he made it a two year process, so giving those people plenty of time to look for other opportunities, as well as their clients right to look for a new agency. So is really mindful of that process and that transition to help give those people, you know, a jump start on the next phase of their career, and so that that was incredibly important. And then, you know, interestingly enough, too, because the agency was in New York City, and they felt, you know, to make a clear break from the agency, Madison Avenue, World of New York. They located the consulting business in Greenwich, right? So just that physical address, as well as the the change in the company structure, was also really important to communicate to the world that they were, in fact, you know, serious consultants. That was a, you know, a location kind of known for that, you know, a city out, just outside of the city. So giving, you know, enormous availability to our clients and being able to travel around the world. So that was also really important. But you know, he also really enjoyed the ability, and one of our differences is we love to work directly with the client. So you know, we’re not pawning it off on some junior executive. We’re always in in the meeting together. And so not having the big agency and having to manage people that really allowed him to do more work with clients, and be more in more direct contact with clients. And that was, you know, his greatest skill set. So what happens once you join, so you graduate, and you decide, no, I’m gonna work with my dad. But, yeah, absolutely, well, you know, and so you know, at that time, you know, he and Jack were together, and no, we decided that, you know, we would, you know, I would join him. And, you know, Jack, Jack went off and did, you know, the same thing consulting. But then, you know, it was just he and I in the business, which is, you know, really a wonderful, you know, partnership of being with him. And, you know, truly, I mean, the first 10 years I, like, I was the ultimate apprentice, right? I was, I was a young kid in my 20s, I was learning, and at that time, he was just writing the book focus. So really, as I said, most important principle of positioning is focus. And he felt it was really important to write a detailed book on that of how it incredibly improves company performance, both in the brand as well as the financial side, making it more, you know, attractive and successful on that end. So I spent a lot of time with the research again. Back then, it was just the dawn of computers. That book came out in 96 so we had, I had to write all the companies asking for their annual reports so he could get all the data and information. It’s so much easier now, but so I did spend a lot of time with that. And of course, you know, going with him on client meetings and participating and all of that. And it was wonderful. I mean, really, you know, a great head start in that. And then, you know, as you know, there’s three decades of our work together, and the second decade, you know, we were more, you know, even partners. And it was, you know, incredibly fun to and he was appreciative. It is, it is very helpful to have a partner, and, you know, we complement each other, right? Of course, he had more decades of experience than me, and he was a male, and he had different, you know, different experiences through his life. And, you know, I was younger, I was female, I was more in touch, you know, I just got married, having kids, you know, bringing all of those things together. So, you know, it’s really nice to be able to to bring that with into the business and into our lives, and in working with clients and speeches and, you know, bringing in the, you know, influences of new brands, new technologies, and, of course, media. We were very early on and jumping on the internet. I was always a computer geek, fascinated by it. So that that was a great, you know, addition to what we were doing, and during those first 10 years, or first few years.

Kris Safarova

What were some of the most challenging things for you? And how did you overcome them?

Laura Ries

Well, it’s kind of funny, but I mean going from calling him dad to Al. I mean, you know, in meetings, you know, you don’t want to be like dad, so, you know, it was more of a professional. Just it just, you know, it just sounded right in terms of a meeting in front of people, and so I would call him Al. And you know, we took our relationship to really a next level. I mean, we were always dad and daughter, but we were also business partners. And, you know, listen, I was still very young at the beginning, but, you know, he treated me, you know, with with such respect. And of course, he was also grateful that I took on the the account, the bookkeeping, the accounting, all of the, you know, business details, so he could focus on writing the books. And other things so but, yeah, it was, you have to work together. I mean, you are a partner, and as a father and daughter team, that that dynamic is, you know, it’s not the same as when you were a kid living at home. You’re today in a business and, you know, just it was great.

Kris Safarova

Do you remember your first international trip? Where did you go? And what was surprising for you?

Laura Ries

Yeah, sure. Well, you know, it’s fortunate enough that, you know, my dad, when I was a kid, had taken me on a few trips, and it was a great experience. And I remember, I it had to have been the first one, but he was had a big meeting at Nestle, in Switzerland, and I got to go with him, and I was super excited. And we got to Switzerland to get this big meeting. And I do remember, we sat down with the executives, and they bought, they ordered this big plate of carpaccio. I’m a vegetarian, and I was, I was just, I was horrified. And, you know, I mean, it was like, Oh my gosh, she’s not going to eat it. And it was a little embarrassing. But they were, they were very sweet. But, you know, being able to see my dad, you know, on stage giving speeches in that environment as a kid, you know, it was just, it was, you know, overwhelming, and I was so proud of him, and to see, to see any parent on the stage like that is, is truly exciting. And he was amazing. So, you know, seeing, seeing as a kid. And you know, then into when I started working with him, you know, as I said, we’re always passionate about presentations. And I was always practicing with him when I was in high school, and, you know, even in college. And so that really came very naturally. And you know, he was so, you know, giving and allowing me to take on the stage with him. And you know, it took practice. I mean, he always gave me notes on how to improve, how to slow down my speaking as I’m probably speaking too fast, and he would say, pause, wait. And so that was, you know, it’s tremendously valuable to have someone giving you that input and really being a mentor in so many ways.

Kris Safarova

And looking back, how did this global exposure? Because you have been consulting across 60 countries, how did it change your perspective on what truly differentiates a brand?

Laura Ries

Sure, I, you know, I think it is, it’s, it’s so fortunate to have had the opportunity to travel the world, as I have, you know, did some when I was a kid, but really took off when my, you know, in my career, being able to take these business trips and work with clients and doing speeches, and it really does open your eyes to really the so many similarities around the world. Well, you know, the cultures are different and the language is different, the climate’s different, but, you know, people, the minds are the same, right? The challenge of branding is getting a brand name and getting, you know, owning a position in the mind. And so you do need to understand that the local market, but you also there is a great global mind, if you will. I mean, today, as we have so many global brands, you know, we have the shared of experience of what McDonald’s is, what Coca Cola is, what Microsoft is, what iPhone is. And you know, to see that and see how those brands, you know, are more similar than not around the world, is really important. And not only that, it’s also the opportunity. So when you go to a small country and to see, well, you know, even in a small country, whether you know it’s, you know, Finland, for example, or Sweden, these are small geographic countries, but we have some of the greatest global brands from there, right? Nokia, you’ve got IKEA. So the opportunity is not just to stay in your local country, but to think about how you can narrow the focus and take that idea around the world. And that is, you know, the challenge is, when you’re in a small country, companies tend to become unfocused because the brand the country is so small. So you have to remember, when going global, you have to narrow that focus, sometimes even more. And you know, truly, why the, you know, success of huge countries, you know, like the US or even China, because you have the you know, our our market is so big, our con our brands tend to be more narrowly focused, which translates a lot easier when going global.

Kris Safarova

Laura, and for our listeners who haven’t studied marketing and so on, could you explain in more detail, what is positioning?

Laura Ries  19:24

Sure, well, first of all, you should check out some of our books, because we we nail it down, and there’s so many great examples. But you know, the concept of, you know, brand is, you know, most people think marketing is done out there. It’s about, all about the marketplace, but the real battle is the mind itself. And to think about, you know, how that brand is perceived and understood in the mind. And the power is in owning a singular idea. And the even more powerful thing is to dominate and own a category. Because, you know, while people talk in brands. Really think in categories. The category is king, if you will. And so because, you know, look, in the mind, if think about electric vehicles, right, is people aren’t that excited about the Tesla brand. They’re excited because Tesla dominates the category of electric vehicle in the mind of the consumer. So the power lies, and that’s where understanding the the mind and positioning is so critical for companies, and particularly for leaders. One challenge in a company is you fall in love with your brand. And for a company, you know their brand name is the sweetest word they’ve ever heard, and the idea of they think that putting that name on anything will make it successful. But that’s not true, because the brand itself, as I said, is connected to the category. And you have a brand like Kodak, for example, one of the most powerful brands at one point in the world. And the company loved the brand. They thought it stood for quality. What they didn’t realize is no It stood for film photography, and so when they tried to launch digital into the digital Kodak, into the digital world. They had the technology. They were the first company to, you know, invent and pioneer the first, you know, digital camera. But unfortunately, they gave it the Kodak name, and that was a perception problem in the mind. It wasn’t a product problem. It was a positioning problem. What they should have done is given it a new brand name. And you see that successfully done with many companies around the world. For example, Toyota, you know, dominated, you know, reliable, you know, affordable cars. And when they wanted to go upscale, they didn’t call them Honda Super, you know, Deluxe, Toyota Super Deluxe. They called it Alexis. And Honda did the same thing, right? You know, they they had a new brand for the expensive version, which is a very good strategy for companies to to use if you want to go into a new category, a new brand is necessary.

Kris Safarova

You recently wrote the book. Congratulations. For someone who will read the book, what would you like them to take away from the book?

Laura Ries

Well, you saw it’s behind me, but it’s called the strategic enemy. I’m super proud and excited, and it really relates to positioning itself, as I talked about a few minutes ago. The content positioning took off because they identified the strategic enemy. At that time, they called out creativity, right? Instead of using creativity to build brands, you should use the strategy of positioning, of looking inside the mind and standing for one singular idea, being first in a category and dominating that. But what I what I realized in working with clients is, you know, too often they think about themselves, and no one you know, picks one brand in isolation, and when you contrast your brand to a strategic enemy, it is much more clear what you stand for by first defining what you’re not. And that contrast is what can bring clarity and better understanding. You see, the mind understands, you know, opposition faster than superiority. I mean, most companies are just talking about, we’re better, we’re better, we’re better. But that’s not believable. You saying you’re great. You know, nobody’s going to believe that. But instead, if you first contrast how your brand is different than a strategic enemy, it instantly sets up the discussion for, well, if how is your brand different, and how does that make it better? And so the strategic enemy is that oppositional force that your brand or category stands against. And it could be a competitor, but it also could be another category. It could be a convention, it could be a concept, but it’s something in contrast to you to make the understanding of your brand more clear. For example, you have Walmart right the low the low cost leader and retail always low prices. At Walmart, they dominate the category. How do you compete against that? Well, not by being better, but by being different, and that is exactly what target did. And target, as we call it, cheap chic, right? It’s the same kind of store, the same kind of merchandise, but it’s has a little bit more of a style associated with it. The stores are cleaner and brighter, and things have, you know, design, they bring in designers, and everything’s just a little bit better. And that clear differentiation is what set up target to build a very strong and be a very strong competitor to the leader, Walmart. So if you look at an example, for example, we take carbon Business Review, what would be their strategic enemy? Their strategic enemy? Well, I mean, here, here’s a, well, a couple of things. One, if you’re the leader, that’s your anchor. And most times, you know, people are coming against it. I mean, for the Harvard, I mean, the Harvard Business Review, I mean, they’re, they’re going against, you know, people like me that are writing, you know, books and you know, different different articles and concepts of, you know, more direct approach with, you know, not so high level that, I mean, I make books that are readable, that are approachable, that have fun and entertainment value along with it. So, you know, there’s always a different way of doing things. And here’s the thing, there’s not one right way or wrong way. I mean, the way I write my books is, you know, one way, and I think it’s great, but how, you know, the Harvard Business approach does it and writes their articles is a different way, right? It’s more of, you know, at the university level and all of these things. So there’s never one way to do it. There’s always the contrast to something else. And for Harvard, what do they have going for it? Leadership. How did they establish leadership? They were the first university, and that goes a very long way. And the real challenge is, you know, how do you how do you become a leader? If you’re the Poughkeepsie Business Journal, it’s a little bit tougher. They’ve got a tremendous challenge. But what other universities should do is narrow the focus and stand for technology or marketing like Northwestern Those are good approaches to compete against with a leader, a leader like the Harvard Business Review.

Kris Safarova

So if we take a publication that is competing with Harvard Business Review, what would be an example of a strategic enemy for them? Would it be Harvard Business Review or something else?

Laura Ries

Sure, any publication you want, yeah, well, I mean, here’s the thing, when you’re competing against a leader, the best strategy is to narrow the focus, to talk on on one topic or one region, right? It could be a country, it could be a city, or it could be, as I mentioned, technology or marketing, there’s different ways to approach that. And by being a specialist that way, you know, you can stand for that idea and be the go to publication for any of these things, whether it’s an entrepreneur approach, you know, magazine or a big company top management approach, there’s always ways to, you know, slice it up and figure out what you can focus on and stand for. So then for them, if you take someone who is very niched, for them, the strategic enemy will be the general publications that don’t go deep enough on the topic. Sure. Yeah, no, yeah. You always you know that being a specialist sets you up to lead in that category. And you know, the generalists, of course, are the enemy, and leadership is so powerful. And when you can, you know, dominate and become the leader in any given category, that really does, you know, set you up for success. And it again, it’s not just you know the reality of your leadership, it’s also you know, the perception of it in the mind. And so that’s incredibly important to drive that. And how do you do that? Well, one way is public relations, you know, for any company or a publication, you know, think about Vogue, you know. Why do we mostly know Vogue? Well, Anna Wintour, right? You know, the editor in chief, becoming a world famous for that magazine, and talking about it because, you know, a publication can’t give your interviews or do much talking, but a person can. And so, you know, you see around the world, you know, successful companies are also have very well known and famous CEOs. And you know, we know the names of, you know, Jensen Huang at Nvidia, for example, or Elon Musk, of course, at Tesla there, that’s an incredibly important part of any positioning strategy.

Kris Safarova

So if someone listening to us right now and they still struggling to identify strategic enemy, maybe you can elaborate a little more for them.

Laura Ries

Well, I mean, it is what your brand stands against. And you know, what it takes to stand against something is by focusing on something. And, you know, there’s many examples you can think of what how did Salesforce establish itself? Well, yeah, they were the first cloud CRM platform, but they didn’t initially talk about that. They wouldn’t talk about, you know, what they were, you know, better at instead, they identified the enemy. They had to knock out the enemy of getting you to stop using software. And no software. The end of software was there a message going up against that strategic enemy to say, this is not the way to do it. We have a different way using the cloud and building, you know, the CRM this way that it’s going to have ultimate results. So, you know, knowing what you stand against is incredibly important, but it does require focus, and that’s something a lot of companies don’t like to do, and so, but when you can do it, that’s a great way to, you know, build the company. It also can help with, you know, figuring out your brand name. You know, finding a name when you have a focus. For example, we have the dog food brand farmer’s dog, you know, one of the leaders in this notion of human grade. You know, food for dogs and they they call out their strategic enemy, which was dry food. Now, I fed my dog dry food for years. I thought it was the best thing for my little Cocoa Puff. But, you know, farmer’s dog has educated me, if you will, by naming their strategic enemy they call burnt brown balls. You know, process it is processed food, dry dog food, and eating processed food every meal of your life is not good for people and it’s not good for dogs either. That was a very strong message and building their brand, not just by communicating how great their food was, although that it’s a part of the message, but also communicating what they stand against, what they’re not, and what you should stop doing, and making that contrast very simple and very clear, but focus, as I mentioned, is so important. Another great example is Subaru, much like my dad’s company back in the 80s, it was 5050, they had 50% of their business in two wheel cars, and 50 in four wheel and they invented, or they call it all wheel drive vehicles. But they didn’t focus on it. And because they didn’t, you know, they had messages, they couldn’t go very strongly in one direction or the other, but then they weren’t doing well, is what happened. And the CEO got fired, the new guy came in and said, We’re going to focus. And they dropped 50% of the business and the car line and focused only on all wheel drive, and had one of the most remarkable turnarounds in automotive history. And today is well established. What is that four wheel drive? It’s about adventure, right about, I’m not sure how many go off road, but people, you know, associate something very specific and very strongly with Subaru. And here’s the thing at the time, you know, that maybe wasn’t such a big category. And, you know, in the south, we didn’t really ever think about buying, you know, four wheel drive cars. It’s, you know, it snows once every 10 years, right? But Subaru was able to grow the category, and that’s the big opportunity to have that narrow focus. You could call it a niche, but to have it stand for it, and then expand the interest by being the leader into that category itself. And that’s exactly what Subaru do, and did and and continues to do. And, of course, now in Atlanta, where I live, you see Subarus all over because people want that brand. They want identify with that brand. And, you know, feel very, you know, love to drive it around town.

Kris Safarova

Laura, so for our listeners who, let’s say they run a company that is not focused. Maybe they’re very diligent, and they do incredible job for the customers type of focus, but now they have a lot of different things. So for someone who doesn’t want to just cut all that business away and no longer serve those customers, is there another way?

Laura Ries

First of all, I mean, it is very important to understand that there is power in focus, right? Not, not, you know, being able to see that and understand it, and not thinking that expansion is the route to success in all directions, and putting your name on everything. For example, what, what is important to think about is, you know, when you talk about focus, the message is very important, meaning you don’t have to communicate everything that you sell. Many companies do this. I mean, particularly think about B to B, your biggest strategy here, the reason for the marketing you do, the the website you develop, is to get new customers, new prospects, and the best way to do that is oversimplify the message and to focus on something. What’s that first thing? Now, once you have a customer, sure, can you sell them other things? Absolutely. But being known and standing for and driving your marketing communications on one idea is a much better approach. Yet. Most people think, you know, and running a company, they treat the different divisions like kids, and we got to be, you know, give an equal marketing budget to everybody. And when you have kids, you should, you know, treat all your kids fairly and the same, but not true in a company and you only, you should pick that one to focus on. I mean, think about Smoothie King. I love this brand. You know, they they invented the words and the idea of what a smoothie is, and for decades, they refocused on healthy, and then revamped the menu recently, and has had tremendous success. But unfortunately, they think, what else can we get into? And they launched things like smoothie bowls, and even now, some like toast and avocado toast. Now, should they have smoothie bowls? I don’t know Sure, but what they shouldn’t do is make that the mass the biggest message, and all the billboards and all the attention going to it. I mean, the opportunity for them is to drive the idea that a smoothie is better than fast food, it’s portable, it’s convenient, it’s healthy. There’s so many powerful reasons that differentiates them. And they are, after all, their name is Smoothie King. They’re the leader in it, you know. And again, once you’re in there, if you have a few bowls on the menu, sure, but I think driving in the one message instead of, you know, listen, the world has too many messages out there. If you yourself have multiple messages. It’s unlikely you’re going to be remembered focusing in on that one message and repeat, repeat, repeat. We see the brands that have had the most success by the repetition of that message, right? BMW in the ultimate driving machine, Chick fil A, right, telling us to eat more chicken with the cows. They didn’t do that for six months. They’ve done it for 30 years. More companies need to think in that direction of understanding what that focus is, and then using that repetition of finding, for example, that visual hammer a way to visualize your positioning strategy so that you can combine it to make it even more memorable, even more emotional in that connection.

Kris Safarova

Laura and when you work with clients, what process do you use to pressure test a proposed brand enemy?

Laura Ries

You got to talk it out. I mean, marketing is as much an art as it is a science, and so the scientific part about it is understanding the perceptions that are in the minds of the prospects, the minds of consumers, the customers, for example. And so that’s the scientific process that we work through. But there is an art to, you know, not just, there’s probably lots of enemies, figuring out which is the enemy we want to contrast from, and how to, you know, make that, make that clear. And it is just an art of having the experience of doing it with so many clients. You know, seeing, you know, a lot of the the time spent with clients is, is talking about analogies of how things worked with other companies and other similar type of situations, and why, you know, our books are filled with so many of the case histories, it’s much easier to understand the principles when you see how they’re applied in other situations. And then you can look back on yourself and, you know, with, you know, consultant to guide you, or really, it’s the outsider’s perspective that I think is very helpful for any company to have as a part of a strategic type of meeting, because they’re so close to it, it’s very hard to understand how you know your company is perceived by someone who you know, thinks about it for, you know, a few minutes, or is introduced to it instantly. What is their initial, you know, reaction, that gut feeling, and that’s where you know, a consultant or, you know, just as I said, an outsider, trusted advisor or friend can help you give that perspective. But yes, I mean, we, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s the art of knowing it’s right.

Kris Safarova

Laura, and what are your thoughts on using AI in helping you select your strategic enemy?

Laura Ries

Yeah, other things related to positioning. I mean, I think a AI is a very interesting tool. I mean, it’s, it’s a little, you know, we had the internet come on and you could Google things, and you could get great information. And now AI kind of synthesizes that and can spit back, you know, different ideas, different thoughts. It can, you know, bring things together for you and look up and research and summarize it. So, you know, I use it all the time. I think it is a tremendous tool, but I don’t think it what it helps me to put on things in the page that I can identify the right answer. I think again, in terms of, you know, different air. I mean mathematical. Math is easy, not easy. It can be very hard, but math is simple. It follows rules all the time. And two plus two is always four. In marketing, it’s not so. And in fact, in marketing, we like to say, you know, two plus two, or one plus one, or two plus two almost diminishes, like adding too many things is less. More is less is more, sometimes meaning the more less things you have, the more powerful you have. You become. So you know, being able to have aI be a tool, and then use that information to help you make the better decision. I think there’s a great human element that is still incredibly valuable. And knowing what the focus is, and then you know as well, convincing people of it.

Kris Safarova

And given the changes, technological changes, advancements that are happening for our listeners, what do you think are the skills they need to really focus developing and strengthening?

Laura Ries

I do think there is. What’s interesting about AI is it can quickly summarize and give you information, but there’s still tremendous value in spending the time and really deep diving into the background and stories and companies and getting immersed into it. I think you can learn a lot through that process. And continuing to read books right with with AI, you can get summaries of everything. But I think there is true value and in reading whole Text and Reading full articles, and, you know, listening to full interviews, the real talk, you know, listening and getting the raw information and data to be able to, you know, come to your own conclusions, I think, is still incredibly valuable. And then also having the tool that you know as on the side to be able to summarize it as well, and using them in combination, I think can make us all more productive.

Kris Safarova

Laura, and if you had to prescribe three immediate actions for a founder launching a new brand, let’s say they’re launching it this upcoming week, what would they be?

Laura Ries

Sure. Yeah, if you’re launching a new brand, first of all, what’s the category? Make sure that you know exactly what the category is. And if possible, can we position this as a new category that you’re pioneering with the old category being that strategic enemy? Next, you know, is the name right? I think you know many times you know founders are, you know, they want to get the product right, the service right, and that’s incredibly important, but the naming is incredibly important because that’s how things are verbalized, and making sure that, you know, it’s easy to say it connects to the positioning idea. It’s not too generic. For example, there’s another company that competes with farmer’s dog. It’s called the fresh pet. That’s a too generic a name. It doesn’t sound like a brand name, right? It’s, it sounds like a generic category. So the strength is in having a brand name that can, you know, stand for that category, but also be seen as a brand name itself. So you got to think about the category. You got to think about the brand name, and then who are we fighting against? Who is our strategic enemy, and being able to, you know, say what our focus is and what we stand against, so that we can make you know and make our brand worth fighting for.

Kris Safarova

Anything else you would like to share about your work that you wish I asked you?

Laura Ries

No, I mean, I think it’s, you know, I love, I love what I do, and that’s, I think, important for for anyone in the world to find passion in what you do, and that allows you to just, you know, you’ve got to spend the hours doing it. And I think, you know, what I have learned is I know so much more after having done this for decades, and I still have more to learn. I mean, you can never take away that learning mindset of, you know, there’s still new things to to learn about. We’ve got AI, so we’re all trying to learn that and master it. And so that’s, you know, a challenge that brings to every day. So but no, thank you. I think for everyone my my only ask is, check out my book. I think it could be a great tool in helping you build your brand by understanding not just what you stand for, but also by figuring out what you can stand against.

Kris Safarova

And I want to wrap up with my favorite question, stepping away from this discussion over your entire lifetime, what were two, three aha moments, realizations that really changed the way you look at life or the way you look at business?

Laura Ries

Well, I mean, I go back to my, my favorite story of, you know, my my dad wrote positioning. I was about nine when that book came out, and, you know, he gave me the second copy. I’ve got it signed behind me. And when I was a kid, I threw it on the shelf. I didn’t think about it, but in middle school, I picked up the book. And I don’t, I don’t even remember why, but I was like, oh, I should read this book my dad wrote, and it blew me away. It changed how I, you know, changed the trajectory of my whole life. Obviously, it got me interested in a deeper way of the concept of positioning, connecting, even, you know, to my father in a new way, seeing how he was able to write these stories and write the the, you know, the case studies, which were so fascinating and interesting. So you know that that was the big, you know, aha moment of my life that you know, I often reflect on of how that that really changed everything you know. It was from that moment on and reading that book that you know, I truly did want to dedicate my life to doing this. And it just became that UN really spoken thing between my dad and I that, you know, I would eventually go into, into the business in some way, and and take it, take it on into a new generation.

Kris Safarova

Incredible. Thank you so much, Laura. Really appreciate you being here.

Laura Ries

Yeah. Thank you.

Kris Safarova

Anything else you want to share? Where can people buy your book?

Laura Ries

Yeah, of course, it is available where books are sold, but you can get all the information on our website. It’s just ries.com. You can sign up for our free newsletter. We’ve got links to information about all our books, as well as the life and legacy of my great and wonderful father, Al Ries. So check it out.

Kris Safarova

Our guest today has been Laura Ries. Explore her new book, The Strategic Enemy. And our podcast sponsor is StrategyTraining.com. If you would like to strengthen your strategy skills, download the Overall Approach Used in Well-Managed Strategy Studies. It’s a free download, and you can get it at firmsconsulting.com/overallapproach. And for aspiring consultants, and if you are looking for a new role, even if you are relatively senior, get our free McKinsey and BCG-Winning Resume example at firmsconsulting.com/resumePDF. Thank you so much for tuning in, and I’m looking forward to connect with you all next time.